Could mediation be the right fit for your divorce or separation?
Mediation may be the best option to help you navigate your divorce or separation. What kind of support does a mediator offer?
Meet Don Schapira of Fresh Start Mediation to learn how his team can guide you to better outcomes with less conflict, even years after your divorce. Your fresh start starts TODAY!
For more information you can find Don & the Fresh Start Team online @ freshstartmediation.ca
Call: 1.877.649.5644
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Deena Kordt 0:00
Hey, are you or someone you know considering dealing with or been through a divorce or separation? Well you're in the right place? You don't have to do this alone. There are people who care and want to help.
Hi, I'm Deena Kordt, an author, blogger, publisher, and empowerment coach. Thanks for joining me on the Divorce Magazine Canada podcast. You are going to hear from our team of experts and professionals how to navigate this difficult transition in your life easier, more efficiently, and with better outcomes. Ready. Here we go.
Did you know we host online divorce resource groups that are free to attend and everyone is welcome? Check out the links in our show notes. And be sure and join us. We love bringing experts to you please refer to our terms of service available on our website, divorce magazine canada.com. And stay tuned at the end for all the legal language.
I'm really excited to introduce you today to Don Schapira of Fresh Start Mediation. And he's another one of the featured experts and professionals in the brand new publication of Divorce Magazine Canada. This is an annual magazine that is complimentary, you can find it displayed in your grocery stores, transit stations, rec centers, drugstores, banks, even some Walmart superstores and Dairy Queens. So look around your community for where any free complimentary publications are displayed. And you should be able to find a copy. If you are having trouble finding one you can also see PDF versions, downloadable PDFs on our website, divorcemagazinecanada.com/magazines. All the links to find Don. And to find everything that we have with Divorce Magazine Canada will be shared in the show notes.
Now I'm really excited about what Don has to share today about mediation and how it can be a very valuable option for you to consider whether you're going through divorce, or separation right now, whether you're considering it, or even in the future, as a way to deal with conflict resolution and many other aspects. So let's jump in and meet Don.
I'm so glad you can be here today, Don, you have started this mediation group and you've pulled together a team that and help support people in many ways through divorce and separation before, during. And after. I'm assuming as well. So welcome. And please give us an a little bit of a story about how you came to be where you are today doing what you're doing. And a bit more about yourself to please.
Don Schapira 3:18
Oh, yeah, no, I appreciate it. And first of all, I want to thank you very much for inviting me onto this podcast and and all the wonderful work you're doing with Divorce Magazine Canada, I think that it's it's just really important to get the word out and the message out of all these sort of alternative and appropriate dispute resolution methods that have come out. And it's, you know, I got divorced back in 2008. And I had never heard of ADR as as an opportunity. And when, you know, I had worked in Toronto, and I've been in finance and working on Bay Street for 1015 years. And prior to that, when I moved to Calgary after my divorce just because I had family here. Shortly after I got here I had an opportunity to work with a divorce mediation firm and in sort of a manager adversity level capacity. And when I first walked in there, I was like, I did not know this even existed like where was this when I got divorced a couple of years back, this would have been been amazing. And it's just amazing how you can structure a process that meets individual needs that helps you answer these questions instead of the unknown.
And I think that's one of the biggest things when you start taking a look at various positions where you have somebody who has an expertise and an expertise simply means knowledge. They know how to go about this particular thing. That's what makes them professional in that certain capacity. And when it comes to to divorce mediation, it's the same thing. We know what the process is we know how to get to these answers. And when people walk into this, they just feel okay, well, the TV says, I need lawyers. Every TV show I've ever seen says, you know, has lawyers, you know, you take a look at that movie, the marriage story that was Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver, they started with mediation didn't work. So they ended up with lawyers. And it just everything that we've been told is that mediation doesn't work. Now you take a look across the pond, right in the UK, mediation is is quite robust. A lot of the things they do their grain Europe, it's used a lot more. In Western civilization, it's used a lot more, but it's quite litigious. In Canada and the United States. And right around that time, I'd seen a documentary and the documentary was called divorce, Inc. and I don't know if you've
Deena Kordt 5:57
if you haven't, no, yeah, no,
Don Schapira 6:01
it's so this documentary shows how broken the system in the United States is. And it is it talks about divorce, not as a divorce litigation, not as an option, but as an industry. And I opened in beyond belief, and that's right around the time that I started getting involved in mediation. And when I was working for that one firm, and it was on a on a contract. And I had asked, you know, I want to start my own my own company, is that okay, can I get out of my sort of non compete or non solicit? To their credit, they looked at me, a rising tide floats all boats? If you do well, we do? Well, it's about getting the recognition of mediation out there. And over the last, I'd say, 10 years, people have become a lot more aware that this is an actual viable option.
And that, you know, I can give credit to a bunch of, of either private firms, even the alternative dispute resolution Institute of Alberta, the governing body, they've done a really good job of getting the message out that there is, like I said, you know, the ADR can be alternative dispute resolution, but it can also be the appropriate dispute resolution service, right. Oh, I like that. Yeah. And, and so back in 2000, end of 2014. You know, we come up with the idea of Fresh Start mediation, and it was something that's a little bit different in the sense of we, our job isn't, it's yes, it's focused on the process. But our goal is to get you to the fresh start. So the finish line for most is for us the starting line.
Right now, you know, what the parenting plan looks like? Now, you know, what the division of assets look like? What do you do now? Because a lot of times, especially in the in the court process, it's okay, here's your divorce judgment. See ya, you're left with assets that you don't know what to do with, you're left with a parenting plan that on paper seemed good, you wanted it, you fought for it. But now, you know, what happens in those moment to moment life situations, right? Like, you know, do you have right of first refusal? How do you communicate with your ex and, or your, you know, the other parent? And so what we're trying to do is shift a lot of those ideas of what, and I guess I like to say it like this, of what the word selfish means, right? So a lot of times, you know, when your lawyer is in, they solely represent you, and only your interests. And so, that's one type of selfish way we take a look at the word selfish is, how will my life look? And will it be a life of healthy communication? Will it be a life of less stress will be a life where we've been considerate of our children? You know, that's, that's really the ultimate form of selfishness where I've just created a a reality for myself that doesn't have those conflicts doesn't have those, those situations which can become uncomfortable. And that's what we really strive for. It's that shift in mentality because, you know, anything can be converted. And I think that, you know, there's a sort of heightened level Metis sort of idea that divorce is a versus game, it's me against you. And oh ground, right. It's a battleground and we try to shift it to be this is just a life transition. This is a life event that
Deena Kordt 9:43
doesn't the negotiation will help facilitate. Right,
Don Schapira 9:47
right. And now it can lead you towards a fresh start a future how can we repurpose these ideas and it all comes down to healthy communication and in proper forums, and environments for overcoming some of the questions that we don't know.
Deena Kordt 10:06
I like fresh start just both of that fresh is it just brings, it's a connotation of, you know, it's a relief. It's a beginning, like you say that start, but it's also fresh, it's new, it's a reimagined or re defined way that you can approach the rest of your future instead of falling off a cliff as things and and just finding yourself at the bottom with all of these leftover, whatever you're dealing with. And it really gives you a sense of what that optimistic way the hopeful way you can look at your future. And that comes in then to those negotiation conversations and process with that outcome that you're looking forward to, and in order to reach that the whole mindset is going to be more open and cooperative, and creates that environment of less conflict. I guess, it's, it's what I am picturing with that approach.
Don Schapira 11:17
Right. And it, you know, when it comes down to that fresh perspective, we are allowed to do all these things differently. And I think it's that permission, right? When we walk into anything new, and the reason that we need professionals is because we don't know how to go about something. And then ultimately, the reason there's conflict is we fear, awesome
Deena Kordt 11:41
outcomes come in with their work.
Don Schapira 11:44
Right? Like, think about when you were a kid, and you got in trouble and your parents had wait till your dad gets, right, those those two hours before you know, dad got home, were the scariest two hours of your life, you're just oh my god, I'm gonna be in so much trouble, he's gonna kill me he's gonna. And then the truth is, is nothing ever works out to be as bad or even as good as you imagined it to be, it's always somewhere in the middle. If you're really reflective on it, it's always somewhere kind of in the middle. And it's, it's something that you can learn from the same thing with this, we walk in with a ton of fear, I'm not going to be able to survive financially, I won't be able to see my children or, you know, the children are going to be affected netic negatively. And we have all these these perceptions and fears of what it's going to look like. But we can put them to rest by actually addressing them. And we love talking about the elephant in the room. Right? Because as soon as you talk about it, you're no longer afraid of start working towards a plan to to alleviate our concerns. And that's
Deena Kordt 12:54
another thing that is a very common fear that people do walk into this with is, what will I be left with? Now you touched on that briefly with your time with your children? What's happening with your home, LLC, the orange story that that you you use to draw us a picture of the approach that you have? Well,
Don Schapira 13:19
the orange story is a great story, because it's a simple story that describes a fairly complex process. The orange story revolves around two children and they're arguing over the last orange in the pantry. Right? I want it No, I want it right. And so they're in conflict. And their dialogue in their communication is no, I want it and that's it. It's there's no there's no expansion of it. There's no exploration of anything further. And so how do you typically most people will will agree with this, how do they typically solve the situation is they'll cut the orange in half or, or even if they're smart, one person will cut the orange and then the other person will choose which half they want. Right? You know, and people think that those are genius solution. What we do is we take it one step further, we just can't see it. Let's put the orange aside for a second. And let's ask a couple of questions. Why do you want the orange? And the first child will say, Well, I'm hungry, and I want to eat the orange and say, Okay, fantastic. And you go to the second child, and you say, Well, why do you want the orange? So I need the orange zest in order to bake chocolate orange cake with mom. And just by taking those extra steps and finding out what those underlying needs are.
What we can do is very simply create 100% optimal solutions and what do I mean 100% optimal solutions. We had a finite resource and by cutting it in half, everybody only gets 50% of what they want. By just doing that exploration. We can have everybody even though it looks like there's just not enough to go around. Not everybody gets that 100% optimal resolution that leads towards the happiness that they're that they're looking for. And we're just not taught to talk like that we're not taught to communicate like that. It's, you know, in school, the two things that we don't learn are the probably the most important for life. And that's, you know, our finances and our relationships. It's how to communicate and work through those. And and you see that all over now? Right? Especially on social media. Everything is binary, right, everybody, you know, it's either you're right, or you're wrong. And that's it, there's no, there's no middle ground. And I say, between right and wrong, there is a limitless rainbow of options to select from, and we just have to get into that, that courage to be able to to admit that there is more than just yes or no, or one or a zero, you know, what I mean?
Deena Kordt 16:01
What point would you suggest someone seeks out a consult with a mediator to determine if this is, if they're ready, if they're at that stage, if it's an option, or the situation they're in?
Don Schapira 16:15
It really it varies. It's, it's, you know, there's, there's so many supports that are out there. I think that everybody has a part to play a, you know, there's some mediators that say, you know, mediation is the only way or, or others who say mediation can't help in certain situations. And I guess, you know, as one of the options that are available. Same thing with divorce coaches, and lawyers, everybody has a part to play at the appropriate time. So when you know, and I believe you spoke to Anna, about this, it's, you know, how do you know you're ready to proceed? And booking a consult with a mediation firm like ours, it this is a free consultation, we get an idea from you, what it is that that are the issues to be discussed and to be mediated.
And then from there, you and your partner can make the decisions, right? We never, you know, when we tell people what the process looks like, Would you like to proceed? It's never, there's never a an expiration date on that. It's whenever you're ready to proceed, we're there. If you want further resources, if you'd like to talk to a lawyer, please do that. If you want to talk to a divorce Coach, please do that. You know, it's about understanding where you're at, at a certain point. Now, some cases can be really, legally complex, right? And some others can be really emotionally complex. Everything can be discovered and used throughout the process at certain points. When you're in mediation, you know, right now, regarding this decision, I'm going to need some legal advice, please go get that legal advice. Right, start taking a look at scenarios. I'm really concerned emotionally. At this point, I don't know if I'm prepared, start talking to perhaps a counselor or a divorce coach, and start seeing where these things help and then come back to the mediator table. And then at the end, you're still going to need your other supports, a lawyer will need to draw up a Separation Agreement. Right. And legal advice, right?
So everything has its own own stage, it's, it's really, I would say, you know, contacting a mediator early to understand where you're at, is, there's no harm in it. Because, you know, the process is, you know, I guess the best way to say it, is we give timelines, not deadlines. And those lines are negotiable. Right, and they can always be renegotiated a deadline is you need to have, you know, this information by this date. It's like, Let's go for this, let's try for this and see where you're at. And if we get to that timeline, and, you know, it's looking like we're not going to meet that we can start exploring, okay, well, why are we having an emotionally difficult time coming to like being able to meet this timeline? What is the issue? Or is it you know, just some external factors slipped our mind, it could be any, but we go through that, that exploration, and then it's really cool how we uncover some of these fears through dialogue. And again, the second we start dealing with it, it no longer becomes a fear, it becomes, you know, just another event we just deal with as we go through, and then we give those we provide those tools to be able to deal with them. So yeah, I wouldn't say necessarily that immediate or has to be first or last. It's it's really, you know, it's it's so unique and our processes is catered, you know, to your unique situation, right? No two mediations are the same. And no two processes should therefore be the same. And it really kind of depends on your situation, what's important to you.
Deena Kordt 20:10
It must be wonderful to witness people facing those elephants and bringing that up. And, you know, just going from terror to okay, there's, there's things we can do, there's ways we can talk through this, I've, it's been a fear, I've been afraid to bring it up. But now that we're discussing it, and understanding that, oh, we can work through this, we can work past it around it, we can, we can figure this out, and just the relief that they feel in addressing that. Right, and shrinking the allotted something that's manageable. Well,
Don Schapira 20:44
and that's a great point, Deena because, you know, when we start arguing with our spouse, without any aid, or without a mediator or third party conversations can really degrade very, very quickly. And that's when, you know, we threaten, or we, you know, we say things that to hurt, right? That's the purpose. It's not really necessarily to follow through. But it's to hurt them as much as they hurt me. Right? It's unfortunate, but it's, it's, it's, it's part of, it's commonplace in our society, right? This is you're not rare or special for doing that everybody has done something like that at a certain point in their life. And it when we get to the mediated table, and you know, we chat with one person, they say, Well, you know, I'm really afraid of this, when we bring it up. Most times, the other party will be like, okay, yeah, that's, that's agreeable. And that's it, we never have to discuss it again. Because it was brought up in an environment of resolution, it was brought up in an environment of meeting everybody's needs, right?
So now not, whenever you you, you're in an argument, it's the feeling of win lose. It's not about that it's not about winning or losing, I don't even like the term win win. This is about eating. Right? There's nobody, it's this isn't about loss, this is about our mind, yet, or my needs are not met, if your needs are not met, how can we help meet them. And then you not only have the mediators there, but your other the other person on on on the other side of the table are also there to help meet your needs, because you can help meet some of theirs, and some of them diverge. And so when we add in that team sort of spirit, it's much it's it's so amazing to see the shifts happen amongst people where the fear just kind of goes away, and all we have left is just real dialogue about the real issues, it's fantastic.
Deena Kordt 22:54
Well, then it brings me back to that orange story where the relief and the and the light bulb that goes off when you realize that we're not necessarily fighting for the same piece of the orange, you know, like when we actually communicate, I'm comfortable now, to offer this to you, because I'm receiving what I actually need an eye, I have some compassion and understanding what it is that's important to you. And then to work through that and communicate in a, an environment that is supported where you feel seen and heard by someone who is neutral and can help you communicate, help you recognize and then communicate the needs that that you have in, in a space that isn't full of conflict. I think that's really phenomenal. And there's less trauma, there's less stress to everybody involved, because those parties, especially if there are children involved, bring that whole aura of of that stress and that trauma, it ripples out to the rest of the family and the whole process is damaged. Right?
Don Schapira 24:05
And again, listen, not every solution works for everybody. And there are some situations where it is more high conflict and the you know, there we have to be concerned with certain, let's say power imbalances, not least among them safety, so that they can be more structured or less structured. But I do recall, you know, in terms of an outcome Now, how's this for a fresh start? This was one client that it had started off high conflict and then there was a severe shift at the end. And one of the things that they had decided they had kept this up for a long time was the father worked from home and the mom worked till about six o'clock at night and mom they decided would retain primary care. So the kids were at school, Dad would pick them up from school, buy groceries and drive them to mom's and Spend that two, two hours roughly with him at mom's house where he would cook dinner. About five minutes before mom came home, he would leave. And mom would walk home dinner was already prepared. And she got to spend quality time. And when we talked to him about it, and we said, you know, why was this important to you, it's that I don't want, I don't want mom to come home, be stressed, have to do dinner, I want her to come home be relaxed, so she can spend quality time with the kids because she's a fantastic Mom.
And so the focus needs to be where the focus is. And so that was a fantastic outcome. Right? Like, that is something that, you know, I say that to people, and they're like, Well, you know, what alien planet was this derived from? Its, but those are the options. Now, that is, in his mind, the most selfish thing he could have done. Because his mind was, I want what's best for the kids and mom, as well, to her credit, letting that come into it have free access to the house and, you know, have a key and, you know, got him more time with the kids. So he got to spend a couple of hours that kind of worked on homework together, he loved you in that part. And then it was just kind of fun time for mom, after she got home after a stressful day at work. Those are the options. And it's amazing when you see people come together in terms of that repurposing the relationship into something that works for the future. And you know, those are the ideal situations.
Deena Kordt 26:34
That's a beautiful story, a beautiful example and the peace of mind knowing as well for them. If that was important that the children are with a parent, they have that time together. And I'm guessing that by by keeping the that that process as low conflict as possible. They're more there's more open mindedness to create situations like this. Right, right.
Don Schapira 27:01
And that's one of the things you know, I've always been in my life, kind of a problem solver. I love coming up with solutions. But in this role, I have to go against that instinct, because it's not my solution. It can be a solution. And we can, but I do I do help with the process that helped me, which is let's start brainstorming. And I kind of use that. Did you ever see that movie, Deena, Apollo 13. With Tom Hanks think I've seen bits of it. Right? So there's one part of the movie, and it's about the Apollo 13, where they were, they were stuck. And everybody at NASA is trying to help them survive this trip back home. And at one point, they there's one scene, which is probably my favorite scene for for conflict resolution and brainstorming that I've ever seen. And what happens was, they had a round filter, but it had to fit in a square hole. And so a bunch of guys at NASA said, We got to make a filter that's made for this fit into something that's made for this using nothing but what they have on board, the Apollo, and we kind of come through. So I love that scene, because and I do that a lot.
And I say okay, let's come up with an idea. What what what do we want it to look? What do we want the outcome to be? Right? So it's kind of like working on a puzzle. We have the puzzle box. We know what the picture is supposed to look like at the beginning, but all the pieces are everywhere. So what is the strategy that we're going to use? Let's come up with a strategy and brainstorm to make this fit. And then we do that. And then we say, Okay, do we want to do this now? Okay, yes, but let's shift this. Okay. So now we can start, we're working only in positives. This is there's no such thing as saying no, we're trying to work towards brainstorming and coming up with solutions. And through that process, it really is amazing how people add on to one another. And what we're doing is we're just shifting the dynamic, again, from a versus game, to a team game. And the more we do that, the more we see positive results. And sometimes that works. And sometimes it doesn't. But the point is, is is it's about that mentality of us shifting, you're not against each other, you're now focused on something that's, you know, more future focused or fresh start that, that sunrise at the end of the road, as opposed to you know, looking behind you and seeing just darkness, right.
Deena Kordt 29:30
Well, in that picture might change as you work to reach, you know, to put that those pieces together, the end picture might change over time and just allowing, again, giving you that permission to allow that to shift as you explore solutions. Right.
Don Schapira 29:48
Right. Absolutely. And it's great that it does because, you know, some of the hardest questions that we ask are the ones that they don't want to deal with that people typically don't want to deal with. rate, you know, we'll ask when we do parenting, what happens if when one of you meet somebody else? Right? That's not something that anybody really wants to discuss, right? That's in certain situations where emotions are high, that can be really, really difficult. Then we ask, Well, what happens if one of you wants to move away to a different city? It's about at least addressing the issue while we're in this room, because if we come to full agreement, and then a year down the road, we have to ask that, you know, we're starting to risk everything that we've worked on. And so it's it's, you know, I love addressing, like I said that the hard stuff because the hard stuff, sometimes it's just not as hard as we think it is.
Deena Kordt 30:48
That's a great point. And I, I was I'm happy you shared some examples of questions, because I was going to ask you to share some examples of some of these tough questions that you do deal with, because those, again, are elephants, or they're ones we they haven't even considered. And like you say, if it comes up down the road, it's so much harder to open those conversations, again, than to just deal with as many as possible at once, when you're when you have someone there to help you negotiate. Do you have any other examples that you could share?
Don Schapira 31:21
Well, I you know, in turn, there's always ones that sort of resonate with, with people more, you know, some are easier, and some are harder. When I say, Well, what happens if you meet somebody else? I'm sure that some of the listeners will, will be Oh, yeah, no, we know how to deal with that. But, you know, how do we deal with church on Sunday? When you know, you know that that's the big one where, you know, so it's about, again, those tough questions of your unique situation? Yes, the one thing that we do at at Fresh Start that is a little bit different, is when you sign on, we sign on. And what we say is, you know, we don't actually represent either one of you, we represent the agreement, and its stability, and its longevity, and its integrity. So what does that mean? parenting plans, they, they change as children grow. If you have a parenting plan for your child who's in grade four, by the time they reach grade seven, now it's junior high. And if you remember that transition for you, or anybody really thinks about it, who you are in grade four, and who you are in grade seven, suddenly, your friend group is much, much more important, suddenly, we start doing a lot more in terms of extracurricular activities, suddenly, you know, life kind of shifts and changes. So the parenting plan, invariably will have to undergo changes.
So what we say is, if you guys are running into issues, because we stand by the longevity of our agreement, you just give us a call, you've already paid for the for, for service, without additional costs, come down, we'll sit down, and we'll kind of remind you, if that's what it is, it's not for us to go through a full mediation again, or I guess it hasn't so far. But what it's been is, you know, we remind you of the process that we take, we remind you of that brainstorming process, we remind you of, of, you know, how we can identify those underlying needs, how we address those things that you fear that suddenly no longer become those big issues. And then within an hour, some of the more complex stuff just gets resolved. And it's really, that's probably one of the most satisfying things, it's that, you know, when you sit back down after a couple of years, and right away that muscle memory sticks in of conflict management, and it really works.
Deena Kordt 33:44
I'm so happy you mentioned that Don, because, again, the fresh start, they're approaching the end of that initial mediation, they've reached, you know, put together an agreement. And just to know, to have that reassurance that before things escalate, that they can step back into this space, the safe space. And again, again, that muscle memory and well that's this is how we can deal with this, but also that they do have that support that is available to them, to have someone you know just be there to create a neutral area that they can revisit and maybe adjust these agreements to accommodate the situation that they find themselves in somewhere down down the road. So I think that would go a long way to help keep the conflict down knowing okay, we do have someone we can go to talk to before this escalates. Let's let's go for that support. That's amazing.
Don Schapira 34:50
Yeah, and I really liked the way you said that kind of made me think of it from a different perspective. You know, there's when you go through something that is this emotionally challenging We can have two types of dog with us, we can either have the attack dog, or the support animal. And when we start taking a look at how we feel, we feel so much better with the support animal. Right? Because the attack dog just attacks blind. Right? It's without without conscious without an, you know, we're trying to remind people that this is about and shifted, you're no longer dealing with your ex. You're dealing with your child's other parent. Yes.
And when you in those shifts are just so beautiful, right? And you know, how you get here and how you influence the whole world of of ADR? Well, earlier today on on your, the, the divorce resource group, you had Diana Lowe speak and Diana Lowe. I had worked with the reforming the family justice system way back in 2015. When I just kind of got into the, into it, I wanted to see what I could possibly do, where the where mediation was going and help people that were looking at it. And so I was involved. I worked with ADRIA, I was a board member with the Alberta family Mediation Society. I was executive director of the Alberta Arbitration meeting, everything that I could possibly be a part of, just to see, what are we doing? How are we doing it? How are we communicating this to people and the growth over the last eight years? And the supports we're always reevaluating ourselves? What is it that we need to do to be able to help and over the years every year, I take two more classes, even ones. It's about refresher courses, keeping sharp and, and as Fresh Start is growing. I mean, we started off with just mean in Calgary.
And now we have 16 team members in various areas all the way we have people in Victoria, Vancouver Kelowna, all throughout Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. And now we're starting up in Ontario. And it's that collective. So we meet three times a week, and we start talking about well, what are things? How are things happening in your province, our or your local people reacting to this aspect of the process? How can we help each other and therefore help our clients Canada wide? And that is such a satisfying process? And it's certainly changed my perspective on a lot of things. You know, I thought that mediation was, you know, a step by step process. And to an extent it is, but you know, those numbers can change, right? It doesn't have to go from step one to step two to step three, go step one, step seven, well, let's go to two, let's go to nine, right. And it's, it's, it's so dependent on your unique situation, and those underlying things that are important to you. And it's, it's pretty cool. Once people really feel that they have all those supports, they have all that information available, and now they're able to move forward with confidence. And it's, it's a really cool thing to see.
Deena Kordt 38:16
I think it's a that is a very important thing to understand that you mentioned those steps aren't just linear, they aren't just black and white. And people have to go through these steps. And maybe they're ready to jump to step seven, like you say, and then oh, well, that brought up something back. And step three, let's, let's go back and forth. And I think that's really important. They're not just locked into some dry system. And there's no flexibility there. And it's not customizable to a situation. And what I love too about to this approach is how it supports the families. And, you know, we talked about the kids, you mentioned this morning's divorce resource group and, and it was, What about the kids and they are so central to divorces and separations and reaching those agreements, and supporting families and keeping that conflict level down, will just help so much or ensuring a healthier family, less stress, less trauma to everyone but especially those children and with their little their developing brains, they're developing emotions and systems that you know, what we can, anything we can do to help support those families is just so important. And we will see more and more in the future generations and as these children grow and become adults how having these support resources is available will change, and hopefully bring down the percentage of divorce and separation in relationships in the future. Yeah,
Don Schapira 40:10
it I think the biggest takeaway from from something like that, from what we, you know, heard from Diana, was, I think that in generations past, we had the expectations that our children should just be resilient. And we never provided the tools of resiliency. And I think that when you start taking a look at at possible adverse childhood effects, and possible trauma inducing, if events in life, if we provide the children, the tools, and we do it not only by by, you know, teaching theory, it's by this is the practice that I've employed myself, now, you can start taking a look at a whole new generation of people that learn that resiliency is something that can be achieved, as opposed to something that you're just simply born with. And I love that I love the fact that parents can work together to increase a child's resiliency to to negative effects. And a divorce doesn't necessarily have to be one of those read toxic stress things. It can actually be something that teaches the child that, you know, relationships can or can't work, but it's how you deal with it. That creates the stress or the negative stress or the positive stress.
Deena Kordt 41:34
Well, and seeing it modeled, seeing it modeled by the most influential people in their lives, their parents, right. Is is priceless. Now, I want to mention what we're referring to with the divorce resource groups, and Diana Lowe that presented this morning at one, we have online course resource groups that are free to attend open to the public, they're all online. Those can be accessed on meetup all our links are going to be in the show notes as well. They're on our events page on divorce magazine, canada.com. Diana Lowe is phenomenal lady very educated and very experienced with family law. And she is working together with a team, which you've referenced how they have been for years trying to help reform the family justice system, because that system identified that they were not, they were doing more harm than good. And there's a better way to help families through the system. And the last resort is the courts, it's not necessarily the best place to resolve these situations.
Now. On that note, she is also presenting at our divorce symposium in September. And I believe you are going to be involved in that as well, Don, that's really waiting. And I'm sure that you will, we haven't lined up and booked all our keynote speakers or the divorce resource groups, but I anticipate that you will be one of them at least once or someone your team. And I also want to give a shout out to the Fresh Start Mediation podcast. If people are looking for information about conflict resolution, there is a series on your podcast that does give some incredible tools to help people with that. And I would highly recommend that that is a resource people turn towards to to just learn more about conflict resolution. So I will include that link as well, in the show notes. Now, you mentioned you have team across much of Canada. So we will include information on that as well. How to reach out to you book a free consultation and find someone who can help towards that fresh start. Is there anything more that you would like to add? Well, I'd like to have you back again, obviously, this is kind of a high level introduction. Fresh Start came from some of the ways that you help families reach a Separation Agreement, but also work through conflicts in in a healthier way with better outcomes. Yeah,
Don Schapira 44:29
no, and I appreciate that. And I'd love to be back. Deena it's it's I've I've written I think articles for Divorce Magazine for the past four or five years and you know, now being being part of that we were part of the symposium during COVID. And I look forward very much to being part of it. Coming up in September.
Deena Kordt 44:50
Yeah, anyone can see the video at some point. The podcast won't have it necessarily but here is Fresh Start's article, ad and the podcast shoutout,
perfect. And if if anybody because as part of the podcast, that series that you're talking about that communication techniques for relationships, we actually have a workbook that we can also give out for free to anybody, you can kind of work through the workbook yourself, as you're listening to the podcast, and really start applying that. This is the conflict that I'm currently in and work through it that way. And it's it's, it's really amazing to see the results because people the way that they overcome it in the way that they feel at the beginning of the podcast, when they start listening to it all the way to the you know, at the end of Episode Eight, they really have a shift.
And it's that's what it's all about. I think that if I was to give anybody at that just at the end of this, it's there is no right way, right? There is no, you know, mediation is not better or worse than litigation or coaching or arbitration. It is one cog in the step of the supports that you need. And like we said at the beginning, you know, we have different supports for different things we have support dogs we have, and all these things feel great. And we're one of them. And we look forward to helping everybody within our own restaurant.
Now I have a couple of things to ask you. One is Can someone start that process on their own, even if a partner isn't ready for that, and they can do that work? I'm talking about the workbook. And where did they get the workbook?
Don Schapira 46:38
Well, the workbook Absolutely. When we start talking about divorce mediation, that's a different animal, we do need both parties involved. When it comes to the workbook. It's amazing that if you have one person who speaks and goes through that workbook, again, if you go to the Fresh Start podcast, I think that it's available on Spotify and, and you can get that link right from the divorce magazine, or even our website. If you just go to Fresh Start mediation.ca, you can just click on the podcast button to listen to it. So it's constructed over eight episodes. And you could just email me just go right into our any one of our team members. And we will be able to just email that that workbook out to you. Can you do it by yourself? Absolutely. When you have one person who speaks with that knowledge of avoiding destructive arguments, and being able to understand where needs come from, it's amazing how as competitive creatures we are as humans, if you show me kindness and consideration, I'm going to steal you that I can be kinder and more. Right. It's that it's amazing how that works. If I feel heard and understood, I no longer arguing on my behalf. Because I now feel that you understand and now it's it's just part of the human nature. I now want to listen to you.
Now. You know, there's a lot of people who listen well in certain high conflict situations. Yeah, having a third party resources there. In certain situations, let's say with and I get this loss. Well, what about a narcissist, and I get that that narcissist, diagnosis a lot. There are people who are narcissistic, and I think a lot of us might have narcissistic tendencies. If we have people who are coming to the table in mediation, it is with the knowledge that they're going to be giving up something it is with the knowledge of a little bit of empathy. And that's really what we strive for. So if one of you does the workbook, it sort of teaches you how to communicate and if you apply that to every conversation you have, you will just fundamentally lead a life with much less conflict.
Deena Kordt 48:59
That's a beautiful tool to learn because, like you say, any conversation or any relationship that you're in, you are learning, a healthier way of communicating that will also benefit you. Because it will keep that that conflict down, you will enter a conversation with a different purpose in mind. It's not there to I'm going to win this or I'm I'm going to be you know come out on top however you look at it if you will approach all your conversations in a different way even with your children or with whoever right. Right
Don Schapira 49:31
you well and you know, with with our kids here at home, they get really annoyed with me right because it's just let's talk about what I just I don't I just want to be angry for a bit. Yeah, like, can you just let me be just a little bit angry for a bit because I don't want to resolve it right now. And that's fine, right? Everything. You know, the one thing we can't do is we can't force communication. Everything has to like even I'll get triggered. Right? It's it's the amount of time that I've been looking at this and doing this You know, cut me off on the highway, I'm already planning, you know, your, you know, the, the trauma that I'm going to inflict upon you. And then two seconds, five minutes later, after I breathe, everything is fine. And, you know, sometimes you got to give yourself that that break a trigger is a trigger, we can't pretend it's not there, we just have to come up with a plan to effectively deal with it. Because it this has come a lot actually, on my social media feeds. We don't our brains don't work in the negative. Now what do I mean by that? We can't say, you know, I will not behave like that, I will not get mad if somebody cuts me off, I will not get mad. Because what your brain does, it just removes the word not. And in turn to I will behave like that when I get cut off, we have to train ourselves to do something different. When I get cut off, I will do this. And now you you have something to focus on, right? You know, if I tell you, you know, don't think of an elephant. What do you think of an elephant, right? Because our brain doesn't work that way. We have to say, if somebody says L if we train ourselves over time, somebody says the word elephant, I think of a donkey. Right? Now, you can do that, because you're training yourself to do something different. And so that's the important
Deena Kordt 51:17
one. And also, I think what's important is just to accept the fact that it's you that you are have the only person you can make any change in in your reaction or you're not going to change anyone else. But you have the power to, to help influence how they respond by how you communicate with them. And I think the tool that you are offering through the conflict resolution toolkit, the workbook, the podcast, and the messages that we try and get out is that it starts with you. And if you can learn how to communicate in a healthier way that can affect change in in that whole interaction with others.
Don Schapira 52:03
So there's a theory of relationships, which I absolutely love. And the theory, it doesn't matter if it's a romantic relationship, parent, child, friend, or colleague, there are three aspects to every relationship, there's the me part, there's the you aspect, and then there's the relationship aspect. Now I can influence only two of them, the me and the relationship, I can't influence you, I can't make you happy, I can't make you sad or angry or blissful, what I can do is I can put as much good energy into the relationship and welcome you into doing the same. And then there's happiness that is exuded from that. And then there's that feeling of growth from that, to ensure I'm able to do that I need to give the best that I can to myself. So I put the best version of myself towards the relationship. And I think that what we do many times in destructive relationships, is we forget the relationship aspect. And, and we say, if you're sad, it's because I did something wrong. So so I made you sad. So now I'm a lesser version of myself. And so if we just focus on if I can do if I can stay healthy, and I can eat right and exercise and, and bring a happiness and a joy to the relationship, you're allowed to be upset on your own, you're allowed to be happy on your own, but what version of yourself that you're bringing to the relationship. And that's a really cool way to look at it.
Deena Kordt 53:36
That's a positive note to end on. Thank you, Don, I appreciate your time today, and what you're putting out into the world and into those relationships, which you model for our people and creating that space where they can learn these tools. Thank you for being with us. I will include links and information so others can reach out to you and your team and work together to make this whole process easier. And fresh start.
Don Schapira 54:13
That's right. And I look forward to booking you on the press Start podcast because I love what you've been doing with Divorce Magazine Canada, and start talking about the symposium as as things come up, and I'd love to have you on hours and I really look forward to scheduling that time with you. But thank you so much for the opportunity to be here and I look forward to coming back.
Thank you. Take care.
Deena Kordt 54:38
Hopefully you heard something today that helps you wherever you might be in life. Do you have questions or a suggestion for a topic you want to know more about? Let me know. Check the show notes for all the contact information. Follow this podcast and find us on social. Know anyone who might find this information helpful. Be it Friend and share it. And hey, thank you for hanging out with me today. Keep smiling up beautiful smile, the world needs your sunshine
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